I kick started with D-bol orals. I wasn't incredibly impressed with that product. After the reviews that I have read, I guess that I expected more. 3 weeks in I over lapped ripped 3%. I was far more impressed with the quality of my reps on that product. Just when you think you can't finish the set, the next rep was there and the next. I ended up increasing reps mid set just because the burn felt good and it was possible. I took a therapeutic dose of Deca throughout the entire cycle and two weeks after. This was a new product for me and I could absolutely feel it in my joints. Far less joint pain during workouts and after.